WHAT THE HELL?

I find this very disturbing.

Quote :

The descent into depravity - Children's hospital launches sex change for kids program

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=62010


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A doctor at the renowned Children's Hospital Boston has launched a new program to drug children to delay puberty so they can decide whether they want a male or a female body, according to a report today in the Boston Globe.

Pediatric endocrinologist Norman Spack, 64, says he started the Gender Management Service Clinic because he found himself encountering 20-somethings who were "transgendered" and in good shape socially, "but they were having trouble getting their physique to conform to their identity.

"I knew the 20-somethings could have better chances of passing if they were treated earlier," he said.

"We don't think that demonic is too strong a word to describe this," said a statement from the pro-family Mass Resistance organization. "It brings us thoughts of the Nazi doctors who thought they were doing good things."

WND has reported previously on some of the controversies prompted by the belief that a man can be born in a woman's body, or vice versa, including in Montgomery County, Md., where county officials have adopted a law that precludes those who provide public accommodations from discriminating based on that "gender identity."

Voters there have petitioned to have a vote on that law because they fear men who "decide" they are female walking into women's restrooms and locker rooms.

"Is this our future?" asked Mass Resistance in a commentary. "Dr. Norman Spack runs a clinic for young children who've 'decided' they are transgendered. Among other things, the clinic administers powerful hormones to delay (or even stop) puberty in order that the children more easily undergo operations that mutilate their bodies to 'change' them to the opposite sex."

"This is going on at the world-renowned Children's Hospital in Boston – not some backwater clinic. This is the elite of the medical profession," the organization said.

In a question-and-answer session with Globe columnist Pagan Kennedy, she starts the apologetic for doing surgery on children by saying, "Little boys sob unless they're allowed to wear dresses. The girls want to be called Luke, Ted, or James."

"Until recently, children with cross-gender feelings rarely received modern medical care – and certainly not hormone shots. After all, who would allow a child to redesign his or her body?" she asks.

But Spack, she wrote, has started a clinic that "is one of the few in the world to give children treatments that change their bodies."

She reports he uses drugs to delay puberty, "granting them a few more years before they develop bodies that are decidedly male or female."

Spack tells the interviewer he's seen "preadolescents" who have been dressing in underwear of the opposite sex "for years."

"The puberty-blocking drugs work best at the beginning of the pubital process, typically age 10 to 12 for a girl and 12 to 14 for a boy," he said. He's based some of his work on a Dutch model for sex-change, and said the recommendations there are age 16 for hormones that forever change a child's body.

But "for others," he wrote, "you lose opportunities if you wait. [One of my patients, a] transgendered girl from the UK, was destined to be a 6-foot-4 male. With treatment, she's going to end up 5-foot-10."

He said such treatments not only change the physical characteristics of the growing children, but also could leave them sterile for life.

"You have to explain to the patients that if they go ahead, they may not be able to have children. … But if you don't start treatment, they will always have trouble fitting in," he said.

"This isn't conjecture," Mass Resistance' commentary said. "It's happening now. And 'transgenderism' is being promoted to kids by homosexual/transgender activists in the public schools."

Children as young as 12 already have been given the treatment.

Meanwhile, LifeSiteNews has reported that Spack previously acknowledged that only about 20 percent of children who claim to have a confusion over their gender hold those feelings in adulthood.

The hospital itself calls the program "unique in the Western hemisphere."

HOW ABOUT SOME REAL SCIENCE ON THE SUBJECT OF TRUE HERMAPHRODISM INSTEAD OF REACTION FIRST. REACTION COMES LATER (or should).(Many statistics say 5 in every 6,000 persons in the us ARE born with two sets of genitals.) What do you, what would you do if your child was in that condition from date of birth? Here are some facts:


Deborah E. Brown, Intersex Support Group International
[Support Groups]
If there were only one word I could give to parents of a child born with ambiguous genitalia (intersexual, hermaphrodite, Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, et al), that word would be: Stop! Repeat after me, ''STOP!'' When the doctors say, "Your child could never function as a male/female, so we suggest that we cut..." Say ''STOP!'' When an expert surgeon is brought in to tell you that your child has malformed genitals, that she/he needs adjustment, and now is the best time to do it. Say ''STOP!'' … As much as every parent wants to bring home a girl, or a boy, your child may not be distinctly either. Often immediate corrective procedures are necessary for the life of the child. When well meaning clinicians attempt to make a package deal, say ''STOP!'' Early invasive treatments literally change the destiny, the identity, the 'me' of your child. It is OK to wait. Gender assignment (mutilation) is NOT COSMETIC SURGERY! It is OK to wait and see who the 'me' your child turns out to be, and then bring your child into the decision loop … For too long, the unyielding demands of people claiming the name of Christ have over - ridden the real love and understanding of our Creator and Lord. Acknowledged in scriptures, both old and new testaments, persons born with ambiguous or no - existent genitalia have been promised special blessing, ( Isaiah 56:3 - 5), as well as understanding of their peculiar relationship in a two - gendered society, (Matthew 19:11 - 12) … As intersexuals we have been created unique by God. Deus Unicus Creatus.Micropenis
XY
testes develop
Androgens early in fetal life, deficient late in fetal life
Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) in 46,XX Individuals
In CAH excess adrenal androgens are produced as an indirect result of a cortisol biosynthetic defect (by far the most frequent defect is a cytochrome P450,CYP21 deficiency). In 46,XX individuals, excess adrenal androgens can lead to ambiguous development of the external genitalia, so that these babies have an enlarged clitoris and a fused labia which resembles a scrotum. The chart on the following page illustrates the steps of sexual differentiation associated with 46,XX CAH (21-hydroxylase deficiency) individuals compared to those of unaffected males and females.
Klinefelter Syndrome …
Turner Syndrome …
45,XO/46,XY Mosaicism …
partial testes determination
variable amount of androgen produced
some Wolffian Duct development
some Mullerian Duct development
ambiguous external genitalia

HUMAN RIGHTS FOR INTERSEXUALS INTERSEX INDIVIDUALS DISPUTE WISDOM OF SURGERY ON INFANTS
Althaea Yronwode
Cheryl Chase’s clitoris was surgically removed when she was 18 months old … Initially doctors thought Chase should be reared as a boy, and she was named Charlie. But further consultation with different doctors led to the decision to raise her as a girl … “Until I was 35, I was ashamed and terrified that people would find out that I was different than a woman. Like many, supposedly happy and successful patients, I was silenced.” … she took the revolutionary step of founding the Intersex Society of North America (ISNA), a San Francisco based peer support and advocacy group. Initially just a loose association on the internet, ISNA now has 1,400 members, holds retreats for intersex people, has produced a video, lobbies, holds demonstrations, maintains a website, and puts intersex people in touch with each other throughout North America … … when all causes of intersex are considered, as many as one in 2,000 babies are affected … Current medical treatment for intersex individuals is in a state of flux. Recently The Journal of Clinical Ethics devoted an entire issue to the subject, ultimately recommending major changes … Professor of Pediatric Endocrinology Melvin Grumbach … Speaking from an office cluttered with journals and papers on this subject in which he is a renowned expert, he cites the advantages of microsurgery, unavailable when Chase’s clitoris was removed. “When I was a fellow at Hopkins, they were doing clitorectomy on girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) … When I was at Columbia, clitoral recessions were developed … were all sexually functional and happy … … “We don’t see a difference between clitorectomy and clitoral recession [in which the bulk of the clitoris is reduced by removal of part of the erectile bodies of the clitoral shaft]. Kinsey showed that women masturbate by stimulating the shaft of the clitoris, not the glans. Recession removes the shaft.” Chase isn’t surprised by Grumbach’s and Baskin’s faith … “They are always saying these new techniques are better, but there are no long - term outcome studies … Surgeons are not trained to deal with parents who are upset. They are trained to “fix” things … … “There is a principle in medicine - do no harm. They [surgeons] don’t know what effect their drastic invasive, irreversible interventions are having … Endocrinologist Grumbach is skeptical of this viewpoint. “If someone is telling you, “you shouldn’t modify the external genitalia,” well, the parents wouldn’t stand for it. They want it repaired!” Baskin … acknowledges that it can be “very disturbing to parents” to give birth to an infant who is intersex. “It is very disturbing,” agrees Chase. “And when people are really disturbed, it’s not the time to make major, irreversible decisions.” Instead, ISNA proposes that the parents receive counseling, and are put in contact with other parents of intersex children … “The child will assert their gender identity between the ages of six and ten,” notes Devore … The ethical issue most prominent in this debate is that of patient autonomy - the right of patients to decide for themselves what treatments they receive … Baskin believes … “Parents make decisions for their kids. That’s what parents do.” … Chase was adamant that the surgery is being done for the psychological adjustment of the parents, which strikes her and other adult intersexes as horribly wrong. “The infant is the patient, not the parents! … ISNA also takes issue with the criteria through which sex is assigned. “In the case of congenital adrenal hyperplasia, the excuse for the surgery is that the girl who has a vagina created will be fertile as a woman. But if you had to choose between fertility and sexual function, which would you choose?” Baskin is horrified by this attitude. “The majority of these patients … don’t look like a girl … I am trying to help kids.” After all the debate and division … Everyone agrees that patients and parents need more psychosocial support … Grumbach believes that groups like ISNA have changed treatment in positive ways … Sensitivity has gone up a couple of logs … “A good psychological social worker would be a tremendous help … get long - term psychiatry … provide support. That is one of the real deficiencies in care.” … Psychologist Devore … scoffs at the idea that trained counselors aren’t available. “The parents need counseling. They need to be told that this [intersex] is a way a person can be, even though it is not what the parents expected … Genital mutilation in the name of “normality” is relatively new; older anatomical textbooks show many variations in genital structure among intersex individuals … If you personally enjoy sex at all … think about what it would be like to have had your genitals cut off when you were a baby for no other reason than that they were “too large” or “too small” …

Intersexuality - A Plea for Honesty and Emotional Support
Bo Laurent, Association for Humanistic Psychology, 1997
The physicians and nursing staff in the delivery room grew suddenly silent, almost grim. “Is there something wrong with my baby?” queried the exhausted new mother … The baby was not sick; it had been born with “ambiguous genitals” … parents weren’t sure for a time whether you were a girl or a boy … “Diagnosis: true hermaphrodite. Operation: clitoridectomy.” “We advise you to fake an injury and leave quietly,” Olympic officials told Spanish hurdler Maria Patino … result of a laboratory test that indicated that her cells had only a single X chromosome. Patino was disqualified. Statistics are hard to come by, but it seems that as many as one in 500 women competitors are disqualified by the sex test. None are men masquerading as women; … Patino is a woman with “male” chromosomes; the medical label for her condition is androgen insensitivity syndrome. … About one in 400 men have two x chromosomes … Current medical thinking treats the birth of an intersexual infant as a “social emergency” … One surgeon, asked why intersex children are usually assigned female, explained, “It’s easier to dig a hole than to build a pole.” … Although physicians understand that they will actually impose, rather than determine, a sex, they tell parents that tests will reveal the child’s true sex, in a day or two at most, and assure them that surgery will let their child grow up normal, and heterosexual. They are careful to avoid words like “hermaphroditism” or intersexuality,” and speak only of “improperly formed gonads,” never of ovaries or testes … As a growing number of adult intersexuals have come forth to speak about their experiences …

Wild Dove I completely understand where your article is coming from, but the hospital in the first article mentions not one thing about “ambiguous genitals." This hospital is allowing children, and their parents to delay puberty in order to let the child decide what gender they chose to be. They talk about getting the "physique to conform to identity." Allowing the child to redesign their body.

There are no medical or physical conditions mentioned at all here.

My Grandmother prophesied on things of this nature. The moral depravity of the human condition and our seeking to remake ourselves into something we are not. The interference of physicians into the physical condition of the human race, creating an artificial concept of the perfect being.

Now it appears these physicians are applying these standards to children who are not wise enough to know the difference.

Spring Miracles wrote:

. They talk about getting the "physique to conform to identity." Allowing the child to redesign their body.

Could they possibly have meant the child's physical abnormality (being born with two sets (male and female) instead of the child itself should make the determination?

I agree about Grandmother's warning: messing with NORMAL god/nature created stuff. What about the abnormal births, ie, two sets? The numbers are alarming, 1 out of every 6,500 is real. Sometimes it is right to intervene with original creation.....I was involved in helping my friend Ara (on Winfrey and on Sally Raphael's show several years back) write her book (Ara had her genitals remade when he was 40)...... it was frightening, and frighteningly sad just to hear his/her story as she told it. Had she AND her parents not had to deal with small-town horror emotional/mental abuse, things could have been much less painful, for him/her and many, many other people who have so much bigotry to deal with...about what's natural god-given, and what's not.......and when to intervene

The only time I condone corrective drug/surgery is about emotional/physical harm. The idea that "It's too difficult, or "I would rather" isn't good enough. If that kind of "opportunity" is being made available, that is REALLY SAD......disturbing

In reality, (not the 3rd dimension we think is "real") there is no male/female. In Spring's article I believe the children feel they were born into the "wrong" body. Like so many people who grow up male or female but feel they were supposed to be the opposite, they are not gay. I think it could be that they were male or female in the majority of their past lives and meant to experience the opposite in this lifetime and either "forgot" or their subconcious still felt like it was what it had been so many times before. Am I making sense? I'm having a hard time putting into words what I mean.

You are making sense to me. Dr. Jung, who introduced the idea of anima and animus (male and female soul/mind/life experience) spoke that a physical male comes into life to experience female mental/spirit femaleness and vice versa. Believing in re-incarnation (after studying over 80,000 dreams from his clients), he spoke about this happening off and on through several lifetimes. This being a natural (and lengthy-at least two lifetimes) event to be called evolutionary/learning process leading to integration of both "gender-like behaviors. 'Course many don't agree about his version of which behaviors are clearly one or the other. Addressing the gray areas is still on-going.

The physical two-sets of genitals people the article was talking about, if I understood it right, was about the period when the chromosonal portion of the newborn COULD NOT HAVE BEEN decided naturally, therefore the physical parts of the body that continued to follow dna intructions (that might have been diseased/confused) and are in conflict with each other. Nevertheless, the idea of simply providing a person without science or social science presented to it, isn't the best choice for deciding what to medically promote/remove, or reduce so the other part can take over physically harmoniously.

Its the social LACK of harmony or consensus about whether its moral or not to intervene when nature has "made a mis-take/mis-read of the blueprints. To me, that simply distracts from the real suffering persons left with both sets as they enter puberty AND adulthood go through. I have known three dear friends personally to attest to that. Had they had a choice before the "facts are all in (traditional medicine opinion at a crisis level right now on credibility (again that damn bottom-line stuff from pharmaceutical/drug/healthcare buyers and sellers). Changing a full grown clitoris, penis, and all the other apparatus (minus reproductive apparatus) surgically that can make two-set hermphrodites live a better life, instead of the lives miserable moral dingbats create when they claim it isn't right. Its still very difficult having to be both, physically foremost, and of course the emotional merry-go-round. Its the emotional strain we must address, and if left at random choice and when, for example, by simply well-wishing persons who would "like" to be a different gender than the one they have (or their children)at predominates physically after (for the most part) several months from birth.

Believe me, ask one what it is like having to deal with both decisions "Nature" makes by creating two. Are they "supposed" to live that way? Is this what "natural" is supposed to mean? I think not. Mother Nature does make mistakes. So many others we don't hesitate one instant to intervene and correct......!

We must not put hermaphroditic intervention with things of moral nature such as cloning for personality/social desire, as well as abortion and all the other "medical intervention, when, how, and/or that "hide from" thinking about the real issue at stake......every case is unique.

masterindisguise wrote:

In reality, (not the 3rd dimension we think is "real") there is no male/female. In Spring's article I believe the children feel they were born into the "wrong" body. Like so many people who grow up male or female but feel they were supposed to be the opposite, they are not gay. I think it could be that they were male or female in the majority of their past lives and meant to experience the opposite in this lifetime and either "forgot" or their subconcious still felt like it was what it had been so many times before. Am I making sense? I'm having a hard time putting into words what I mean.

MID that is what they are suggesting. It is not a case of hermaphroditic intervention, or intervention due to deformity.

I have to say that being born in the "wrong body" may just be a case of Karma or soul progression. I do not feel we are meant to intervene in that case. We cannot pick our eye color, hair color, even though we do change both now, but it is not permanent. We should not be intervening in the natural order of Creation or Nature, or soul progression. In the case of serious physical deformity I would agree, but not in order to make our life easier because we are not happy with our physical appearance.

My friend Ara had the surgery done because he/she really was so embarrassed having to use the men's room (open-he/she worked in an auto repair shop where men had no privacy (as in many, many low opinion shops wher prejudice is rampant. The good part is that she and the surgery worked out well. She went back to work as a mechanic, and because she was so good at her job, she found her niche. It was a really wonderful thing in the end. People finally supported her all the way (This happened in Seattle a couple of years ago and made national news by the time she got her story out on Oprah and Sally Raphael....seriously!

I re-read the thread. Sorry, I really thought the article was about the choice of accepting both lives (hormone confusion/chemical changes/confusion about which instructions (dna) to follow, rather than a choice of which appearance/acceptable behavior was preferable to the child when age-wise, be able to make decisions, rather than "automatically alter" the plumbing while child is still a baby.